PRESS RELEASE: FOUNDRY CHURCH TO WORSHIP IN SOLIDARITY WITH LESBIAN CLERGYWOMAN

Foundry United Methodist Church will hold a service of solidarity with the Rev. Beth Stroud the evening before the denomination’s top court considers whether to uphold a verdict restoring her ordination.

The service will be held in the church sanctuary at 16th and P Streets in northwest  Washington, D.C., on Wednesday evening Oct. 26 at 7 p.m. It will feature the video presentation of the sermon preached by Rev. Stroud at the recent “Hearts on Fire” convocation sponsored by the Reconciling Ministries Network.

A prayer service will be held at the church at 10 a.m. Thursday Oct. 27, the hour when arguments for and against her ordained ministry will be presented to the United Methodist Judicial Council.

Stroud, assistant pastor of First United Methodist Church of Germantown in Philadelphia, Pa., stated in a sermon and in a letter to the 1,000-member congregation that she is “a lesbian living in a committed relationship with a partner.”

Bishop Peter Weaver, then presiding bishop of the Eastern Pennsylvania Annual  Conference, filed a complaint against her, charging her with violating the denomination's prohibition against "self-avowed practicing homosexuals" in the ordained ministry. In a church trial last December, Rev. Stroud was found guilty and  lost her clergy credentials.   

On April 29, the denomination's Northeastern (US) Jurisdiction Committee on Appeals overturned the trial court's verdict and penalty, citing legal errors, and restored Stroud's clergy standing. The next week, Bishop Marcus Matthews, then presiding bishop of the area, filed an appeal against the jurisdictional committee's decision with the Judicial Council, the denomination's top court.

Arguments regarding the appeal will be heard Oct. 27 at 9 a.m. CDT at First United Methodist Church in Houston, Tex. Representatives of the Eastern Pennsylvania Conference and Rev. Stroud will be allowed 30 minutes each to present their arguments. Deliberations in closed session will follow the hearing.

The Judicial Council normally does not release information about its decisions until the conclusion of the full meeting, which is scheduled for  Oct. 29.

For more information, contact the Rev. Dean Snyder, senior minister of Foundry United Methodist Church at 202-332-4010.

Comments

[Revwilly]

Dean,
For what outcome will you pray for Beth's trial and will the outcome be God's will for the UMC and Beth?

[Craig Moores]

Dean
Does this event support unity in the UMC?

[Keith Taylor]

Thank you for this post Dean.

Rev. Willy,

You make an excellent comment here. I would hope that all United Methodists pray that outcome of the trial is the true will of God and Christ's Church, regardless of our personal wants and beliefs. I hope to be dilligent in my own personal prayers to ask for this.

[Dean Snyder]

Craig

I deeply appreciate this part of the Confessing Movement's statement about unity:

It defines genuine unity "as a precious gift of the Holy Spirit, rooted in the gospel of Jesus Christ, witnessed to in Holy Scripture, summarized in ecumenical creeds, celebrated in worship and sacraments, demonstrated in common mission, articulated in our teaching, lived out in love, and contended for by the faithful."

If you listen to Beth's sermon, you will discover that what whe says and what we will show via DVD is very consistent with this statement about unity.

And Willy

We will surely pray for God's will. I can't control everyone's prayers who will be present, but I am convinced that God hears our deepest longings beneath our words and uses them for good.
Dean

[Tony Rose]

When Jesus sent out the Twelve Apostles, Scripture tells us that, "They went out and preached that people should repent" (Mark 6:12). Those whom Jesus send out today, are preaching the same message.

Praying against what God has already revealed as His will in Scripture, falls on deaf ears (Isaiah 59:2; Psalm 66:18).

My prayer, is that your prayers, will be for Beth's repentance and for the church's acceptance of her repentance. If your prayers are for the church to justify sin, those prayers, are coming from "clouds without rain" (Jude 4-22).

[Craig Moore]

Dean
I guess I do not understand how someone who openly violates the rule of law of the church, and in my opinion scripture, can be considered promoting unity. Doesn't simple logic indicate that her desire to legislate this in the courts of the UMC, instead of accepting the consequences of her confession and lifestyle show a careless concern for church unity?What are you most in favor of yourself, the rights of gays or church unity?

[John]

Dean, I'm curious about how this came about internally. Was it a resolution of the Church Council or SPRC?

[Dean Snyder]

John

Pastors are responsible for the worship life of a congregation. Wise pastors make sure they remain in communication and dialogue with congregational leaders.
Dean

[Dean Snyder]

Craig

Let me ask this question. Were the African-Americans who opposed the duly legislated,
Discipline-mandated Cental Juridiction that segregated African-Americans within the church being enemeies of unity? What did they want most -- racial justice or unity? Would you have accused them of being more concerned for racial equality than unity?

Dean

[Tony Rose]

Dean,

This is the second time you have used the slavery/homosexuality comparison after I adequately explained it is a non-sequitur to compare the two. I understood your desire, from ignorance, to say that "since the Bible and the church taught slavery and changed its view, so must the church now change its stance on homosexuality." However, after explaining the truth to you regarding the Bible's true teaching on slavery, and the historical error of those in the church who promoted it, it behooves me that you would still propagate this flawed comparison.

I considered your error prior to my explaining it to be an honest mistake from ignorance. However, your continuing to promote the false logic after my explaining it is simply scholastic dishonesty. Must you continue to use that which you know is false in order to promote your pre-conceived agenda? Does the end justify the means to you?

[Craig Moores]

Dean
I am not going to argue this with you, do what you have to do. It confuses me though when you say you advocate unity in the church, and then turn around and do things that everyone knows ignites people's passions. You say you want church unity and then throw gasoline on the fire of disunity.

[Tony Rose]

Dean,

Beth Stroud claims she discovered she was a lesbian while in college, which was prior to her requesting ordination within the UMC. This means that she knew she was in violation of the Book of Discipline and the church's position on homosexual clergy before she began the ordination process, and therefore had to keep her homosexuality a secret in order to become an ordained minister.

In her own words, she said, "I’ve come to a place where my discipleship, my walk with Christ, requires telling the whole truth and paying whatever price truthfulness requires.” 

She acknowledges that she now is telling the whole truth. What is the whole truth? The whole truth is she did not tell people that she was homosexual when she accepted ordination into the UMC, knowing that the discipline of the church absolutely prevented an active homosexual from being a minister of the church.

This is a situation in which you have a person say they are acting with integrity when they acknowledge that they willingly signed what they do not believe, and misrepresented who they really are. This is not just an issue of homosexuality, but also one of honesty and integrity.

I pray, that when you pray for her and meet with her, you will admonisher her gently regarding her dishonesty and her homosexuality, loving her unto repentance and not away from repentance, while being accepting and tolerant of her repentance of these sins.

[the_methotaku]

Dean, may my prayers join with yours and all of us United Methodist progressives in enabling the Judicial Council to make a ruling that does justice to ALL God's children, Lesbian, gay, bi, and Straight.

[Jonathon Norman]

"This is the second time you have used the slavery/homosexuality comparison"

Craig, Dean's comment had nothing to do with slavery. The Central Jurisdiction had to do with segregation. There is DEFINITELY a parallel between these situations. Whether you or not one thinks one is moral and the other is not, one cannot help but see the similarities.

The african american community was EXCLUDED from the rest of the body of the Methodist structure. The Methodist Church FORCED them to a marginal jurisdiction. The gay community is EXCLUDED from the rest of the body of Methodist structure.

But again, what does this have to do with slavery?

[Jonathon Norman]

sorry, I meant Tony, not Craig.

[Tony Rose]

Jonathan,

Being an Africa-American is not sin. Practicing homosexuality is sin. The logic is precisely the same. Any church, Methodist or otherwise, that practices slavery or segregation is wrong and needs repentance. Any person who practices sin (homosexuality or otherwise) is wrong and need repentance.

The gay community is not EXCLUDED from the rest of the body of the Methodist structure, as you put it, but sin, all sin, is required to be repentant of before one requests membership in the church. It isn’t that homosexuality is singled out as the only sin that is to be repentant of, but rather, it is consistently held to the same standard as everyone else's sins. Repentance of your sins is an equal opportunity requirement of the church. “Do you repent of your sins?” is in front of your hymnal as a requirement for membership. Does your church not uphold that requirement for everyone else?

You see Jonathan, the issue isn’t exclusion, the issue, is: Is it sin? Instead of addressing the issue, Dean and other liberals are trying to link homosexuality, which is a behavior, to something that is not a behavior – race. That is how the black, segregation, and slavery talks are all the same issue here. People are trying to say that being African-American is normal (and it is) therefore being homosexual is normal (which it isn’t). This is a classic non-sequitur and is a relevant point in this discussion. Even Jesse Jackson agrees with this!

Those in the Methodist church who promoted slavery and segregation were wrong because THEY were the ones in sin and needed to change. Those who point to the Scripture and demonstrate that it says homosexuality is sin, are not wrong, because that is what it says.

You can’t point to a group when they were legitimately wrong and say, “See! You are wrong again” when the issues are unrelated. Namely when one is labeled sin in Scriptures and one isn’t. This is the attempt with all discussions relating race to homosexuality, and logic will not permit the relation to be made. I pray you can see the distinction.

[Revwilly]

On unity..(I haven't thought this completely through, but here it goes)
I don't think unity means agreeing on everything. I have a union(unity) with my wife but we don't agree on everything. Unity goes far deeper than agreement on issues. So I guess that means I am in unity with Dean whether I agree with him or not.

[John]

Tony, remember that the UMC doesn't deny ordination to all homosexuals, but only practicing ones. So if Beth Stroud was not 'practicing' at the time, then she was not in violation of the BoD.

[Tony Rose]

John,

You bring up a good point of distinction regarding the official stance of the UMC on sin, and one that has to be true for all sinners. All Christians are “non-practicing sinners” saved through repentance and trust in Christ, where we have passed from being “practicing-sinners” to “non-practicing sinners” (1 John 1:6-7). This same distinction can also be made by substituting the words “repentant sinners” and “unrepentant sinners.” We all were once “unrepentant sinners,” but through Jesus, those who are saved are by definition, “repentant sinners.”

The keyword however in your post is the word “if.” According to her own testimony, she was a practicing lesbian upon entering a church “that might welcome us as young lesbians,” which is what led her to conclude that “the taste of ministry I got…was significant enough that I even decided to apply to seminary.”

In addition, she also claims that before she finished seminary, she dropped out and “got involved in AIDS activism, trading life in the church for life in the broken heart of the gay community.”

Moreover, in discussing her “call to ministry” she writes, “I was working on a newspaper article about gay and lesbian spiritual leaders in New York, interviewing four different pastors and rabbis, all of whom had found ways to integrate a healthy honesty about their sexual orientation with a powerful, effective ministry. I guess the combined effect of all those unapologetically gay, deeply spiritual pastors finally got to me.”

This does not appear to be the testimony of someone who is struggling with something they know is sin, and confessing it. Rather, it appears to be more in tune with someone who is trying to figure out a way to justify their position on the issue and integrate it into the church without the personal change repentance demands. The fact that she continually says of the UMC, “despite its discriminatory stance,” indicates that she does not recognize homosexuality as sin to be confessed, but rather, something to be celebrated. She is in opposition to the church and the Scriptures in that belief and is creating disunity in the church by asserting that contrary belief; especially with that choice of words.

With these explanations, combined with her admitting to being in a “practicing” relationship for the last two and a half years while deceptively remaining in ministry (despite the churches position), it is more than a likely possibility that she was a “practicing” homosexual, or at least sympathetic to “practicing” homosexuals, at the time of her ordination. This conclusion is not unscripturally “judgmental,” (Matt. 7:5; John 7:24) but logical based on her own words.

Furthermore, what she is now asking for is “to serve the United Methodist Church as an openly lesbian clergywoman,” which explains that she is continuing in the same mindset of desiring to be “practicing” while being in opposition to the BoD, the church, and the Scriptures. This is rebellion, not repentance, and it appears to be consistent with her position before, during, and after ordination, making the “if” proposition you make irrelevant to her situation.

Consider her “coming out” sermon, hypothetically, from the lips of a heterosexual male pastor, who publicly confessed to an adulterous affair taking place during the previous two and a half years. Any argument from the pastor himself regarding his discovering his tendency for this sin or his desire to remain in ministry without repentance, would be considered ludicrous. Regardless of his timeline of when this discovery was made in relation to his ordination, such would be irrelevant to the proper conclusion that his integrity would be in question. If homosexuality is sin, which the Scriptures maintain it is, then her situation is no different. Which once again brings us to the crux of the issue: Is it sin or not? Within or without the context of Beth Stroud and the UMC, that remains the ultimate question regarding homosexuality. The Scriptures are clear for those who have ears to hear.

I don’t know Beth Stroud personally, nor do I judge her personally on this or any other issue. But we all have the ability to read the words she says and come to the conclusion that she believes that which she defends. I noticed that in her speech she described the homosexual life as “life in the broken heart of the gay community.” This saddens me tremendously. Even though I know she meant the “broken heart” to be over the “discrimination” of the church, it is still true that when we all are trapped in sin we are broken-hearted and live in darkness. It is the position of broken-heartedness that the Scriptures claim is the proper position to approach the cross from (Isa 61:1; Matt 5:3) in seeking repentance. If I did know Beth or had the chance to talk to her personally, I would tell her the following that I blogged about the other day:

In Mark chapter 5, where Jairus comes up to Jesus to plead on behalf of his sick daughter. The text says that while he was talking to Jesus, some messengers arrived to tell him the girl had already died. Their proclamation is recorded in verse 35: "Your daughter is dead. There's no use troubling the Teacher now." Their comments and pessimism come from the fact that they were looking at things from man's perspective, not God's perspective. In their world, once people were dead, that was all she wrote! Hope is gone, and no healing is possible any longer. I just love Jesus' words in his response to Jairus in verse 36: "But Jesus ignored their comments and said to Jairus, "Don't be afraid. Just trust me." Then of course, He raises her from the dead, because Jairus takes His advice instead of the messengers' advice. Jesus was demonstrating to Jairus what he said in Mark 10:27: "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God." Many people in this world are struggling with things that are impossible to change, from man's perspective. At the same time, discouraging people are telling them "There's no use, you were made that way." Perhaps you have a sin in your life such as lust, homosexuality, pornography, or other addition and your pastor or church is telling you, "There's no use considering change." Well it isn't true! I can only mimic the words of Jesus in response to such a pessimistic view: "Ignore their comments and don't be afraid. Just trust Him" and he can heal you. Even if you are dead! "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God." Amen!

 "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel." (Mark 1:15)

 

[Andy B.]

Dean,
I have the date and time on my calendar. Perhaps a few prayers floated over from Kansas City will help down in Houston. On earth as it is in heaven.
Peace,
Andy B.

[Tony Rose]

After posting to this blog I received the following private email from a UMC pastor. I thought it was relevant to this dialog in that it points out exactly what Beth Stroud had to agree to prior to her ordination, and how that is relevant to the issue of pastoral integrity mentioned above.

"Too many UM ministry candidates lie at their ordination vows about things that will disqualify them. The general attitude is "just say what you have to and write what's necessary to get through." Sad. I have already addressed this to the Chair of our Board of Ordained Ministry. Pray that I will have other opportunities to speak out on this issue of clergy integrity."

After asking him if I could post his words publicly, he added the following:

"You may.... In addition, here are the historic questions every candidate for ordination must answer appropriately or be rejected:"

(After reading these and considering Beth Stroud's position on the issue of homosexuality prior to her ordination, the only conclusion one can come to is that she did not honestly answer these questions at her ordination. Specifically: 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, and 19b).

• 1. Have you faith in Christ?
  Many do not know what this means: "I'm tired of hearing about all this 'born again' crap!" -United Methodist DS. Faith in Christ for what? If there's no sin and no Hell and no Devil, what do we need faith for? What's the difference between faith and belief?

• 2. Are you going on to perfection?

• 3. Do you expect to be made perfect in love in this life?
  I heard a Bishop try to explain these questions away at an ordination service. It was clear he had no understanding of the Methodist doctrine of sanctification.

• 4. Are you earnestly striving after it?
  90% of our clergy do not even know what this means.

• 5. Are you resolved to devote yourself wholly to God and his work?
  Wesley said we have nothing to do but save souls. We have redefined this to mean whatever we want it to mean; including pushing the political agenda du jour.
   
• 6. Do you know the General Rules of our Church?
  These use archaic language of Wesley's time and are routinely ignored.

• 7. Will you keep them?
  We can't keep rules that we're ignorant of.

• 8. Have you studied the doctrines of The United Methodist Church?

• 9. After full examination, do you believe that our doctrines are in harmony with the Holy Scriptures?

• 10. Will you preach and maintain them?
  I've never heard a Methodist minister appeal to our doctrine. What does that tell you?

• 11. Have you studied our form of Church discipline and polity?

• 12. Do you approve our Church government and polity?

• 13. Will you support and maintain them?
  Lying about these is what Stroud and others are doing. I watched a closet lesbian make these vows at Annual Conference this year. Even our Bishops feel no qualms about undermining these.

• 14. Will you diligently instruct the children in every place?
  I don't have a source for this, but I've heard that the average UMC member is older than the average AARP member. What does that tell you?

• 15. Will you visit from house to house?
  This is what UM members complain the most about. Pastors don't visit.

• 16. Will you recommend fasting or abstinence, both by precept and example?
  Abstinence includes things like alcohol, gambling & sex outside of marriage.
  I've heard UM clergy in NJ, PA and NC make jokes about this. I would estimate that fewer than 10% of our clergy fast.

• 17. Are you determined to employ all your time in the work of God?
  See question 5.

• 18. Are you in debt so as to embarrass you in your work?
  The joke is: "I'm not easily embarrassed." One couple recently graduated $90,000 in debt and were ordained.

• 19. Will you observe the following directions?

• a) Be diligent. Never be unemployed. Never be trifling employed. Never trifle away time; neither spend any more time at any one place than is strictly necessary.

• b) Be punctual. Do everything exactly at the time. And do not mend our rules, but keep them; not for wrath, but for conscience' sake.

Keep our rules for conscience sake. The attitude for many seems to be "I'm not guilty if I'm not caught."

If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 1 John 1:6

I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 1 John 2:21

 

 

[Hephaestion]

It amazes me how people continue to pervert Biblical writings in order to condemn people they don't understand. The Bible does not condemn gays. At all. Period.

If you think it does, then you also think it tells you to kill children who sass at parents, kill anyone who plays with a pigskin (football) and anyone who eats shrimp.

You can either take the Bible literally or you can take it seriously. It is not intended as an instrument of hatred and injustice.

[Tony Rose]

Heph,

You've been reading too much of Dean's propaganda. Of course the Bible is not an instrument of hatred and injustice, it is an instrument of love AND justice.

In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people (including heterosexuals and homosexuals) everywhere to repent. Acts 17:30

[Tony Rose]

Heph, if you really think the Bible doesn't label the practice of homosexuality as sin, John MacArthur addressed this issue on his broadcast this morning, and I think you would be enlightened by listening to it.  You can do so for free at the link below.

This is a very good explanation of the issue from The Word of God, and contains a touching story of a young man dying of AIDS who accepts God's salvation.

-tony

God’s View of Homosexuality, Part 1
Monday, October 17, 2005
If there’s one word that describes the heart of Jesus for those who struggle with homosexuality . . . it’s compassion. Why then, do many churches — shockingly — choose to lie to those people and leave them dying in their sin?
Series: Homosexuality and the Bible

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/grace_to_you/default.asp?weekday=0

 

[Theron P. Snell]

Hello:

I was an active member of a small rural UMC church for many years. I served on the East Ohio Conference Board of Church and Society (on the committee dealing with the Social Principles)from my district.

I left the church...and cannot come back....because of the dirty political manuverings over gay rights and the ultimate denial by a succession of Annual Conferences.

I still cannot believe how the Church can be so enlightened in many of its Socail Principles and be so desperately cruel over this issue.

I read today's New York Times story about this continuing denial and feel vindicated. You are at it, still.

Read the Gospels, not the letters, not the Old Testiment.

I have difficulty understanding how a so-called Christian community can even debate this issue, let alone play guard-house laywer eg: did she know before she was ordained, etc?

If this is Christianity (and it seems to be) then I'll contiue to find spiritual solace in the natural world, music and art.